Is the word Synagogue Greek and the word Havra Spanish?

Thanks to all respondents.

As Dimitris said, χάβρα is the colloquial Greek word for synagogue, typically derogatory (unsurprisingly 🙁 ). It is used in two expressions I know of:

(Antisemitism alert, with apologies to respondents)

1. As Dimitris also said, χάβρα Ιουδαίων, “a synagogue of the Judaeans”, meaning “confusion, free for all”. Pretty rich, you’d think, for Greeks to accuse Jews of something they freely practice. The word for Jews is not colloquial but learned, which makes me think the expression is pseudo-ecclesiastical, meant to sound like something said in church.

2. When Greeks say fuck (γαμώ) as an expression of anger towards someone, they pick a blasphemous target, to give it that extra taboo-breaking frisson. The targets are almost always internal to religion, and are always associated with the interlocutor. Thus, γαμώ το Χριστό σου “your Christ”. (Your Christ, not mine.) Similarly, την Παναγία σου “your Virgin Mary”.

Because Greece has been pretty much a monoculture religiously for a while, you don’t hear other religions targeted much. But from literature (Kazantzakis), I know the counterpart addressed to Muslims: γαμώ τα γένια του προφήτη σου “your prophet’s beard”.

When my dad was angry (which was rare), he’d say γαμώ τη χάβρα σου: “fuck your synagogue”.

No, my father is not, to the best of my knowledge, antisemitic. (Any more than the people who say “fuck your Christ” are atheists.) I’d be surprised if he even knows what a havra is. It’s just this thing he’d have heard people say.


The Triantafyllidis dictionary lazily derives Greek havra from Turkish havra: Λεξικό της κοινής νεοελληνικής. The Babiniotis dictionary goes further: < Turkish havra < Hebrew hebra.

Chi in Greek is of course /x/, so chavurah /xavurah/ and χάβρα /xavra/ are pretty damn similar; and it’s hard to tell whether the word went straight into Greek from Hebrew, or via Turkish.

[EDIT: Duh. Vowel Harmony. Turkish first.]

I’d never checked the etymology of χάβρα, and am glad that in between shunning Jews and ridiculing them, my people at least noticed their own word for a gathering.

How many nationalities have you met?

A fun question! And I’m not going to win. But I do live in God’s Own (Australia), which gives me an unfair advantage.

I’m listing people I’ve had conversations with In Real Life.

  1. Albania: random guy at a shopping centre cafe a months ago, several in Greece in various capacities.
  2. Algeria: boyfriend of a fellow intern I was visiting in France
  3. Armenia: went there
  4. Australia: live there
  5. Austria: went there
  6. Belgium: went there
  7. Bulgaria: fellow conlang geek, met in Scotland
  8. Canada: went there
  9. China: several fellow engineering students, several programmer colleagues
  10. Taiwan: programmer colleague
  11. Croatia: fellow linguistics student
  12. Cyprus: went there
  13. Czechia: my massage therapist
  14. Denmark: a conlanger, met in Scotland
  15. East Timor: fellow research assistant
  16. Egypt: parent’s neighbours
  17. El Salvador: server at my local Del Taco in Cali
  18. Ethiopia: linguistics lecturer
  19. Fiji: fellow engineering student
  20. France: went there, a few French lecturers
  21. Georgia: owner of Georgian restaurant I go to
  22. Germany: went there, lots of German lecturers
  23. Greece: lived there
  24. Hungary: fellow high school student
  25. India: several programmer and BA colleagues
  26. Indonesia: fellow engineering students
  27. Iran: fellow linguistics students
  28. Ireland: I live in Australia 🙂
  29. Israel: fellow high school student, fellow BA
  30. Italy: went there, lots of Italian lecturers
  31. Japan: fellow linguistics students
  32. Kazakhstan: fellow linguistics student’s boyfriend
  33. Lichtenstein: some tourists I met in Crete
  34. Luxembourg: CEO of assessment software company
  35. Macedonia: uni student I befriended while working tech support
  36. Malaysia: fellow engineering students
  37. Malta: wife’s best friend
  38. Mauritius: former boss
  39. Mexico: I lived in SoCal
  40. Netherlands: went there
  41. New Zealand: I live in Australia. Latest was a data architect just this week
  42. Norway: linguist at historical linguistics conference
  43. Philippines: fellow linguistics student; admin in linguistics department
  44. Poland: fellow linguistics student, student I co-supervised
  45. Romania: neighbour’s daughter in law
  46. Russia: fellow high school students, fellow linguistics students
  47. Saudi Arabia: students I lectured
  48. Serbia: student I lectured
  49. Seychelles: neighbour’s wife (deceased)
  50. Singapore: fellow engineering students, fellow high school students
  51. Slovenia: solutions architect at work
  52. South Africa: owner of bike shop next door to my parents
  53. Spain: Spanish lecturers
  54. Sri Lanka: fellow high school student
  55. Sweden: Swedish lecturer
  56. Switzerland: programmer colleague
  57. Syria: My dry-cleaners in SoCal
  58. Turkey: been there
  59. Ukraine: friends of fellow linguistics student, boss
  60. UK: been there, boss, personal trainer
  61. US: lived there
  62. Uruguay: boss’ wife
  63. Vietnam: French lecturer; fellow PhD student

If I add restaurants with cuisines from those countries (who, it stands to reason, will likely employ at least one person from that nationality—so I’ll have met them if not spoken to them):

  1. Afghanistan
  2. Argentina
  3. Brazil
  4. Cambodia
  5. Jamaica
  6. South Korea
  7. Lebanon
  8. Morocco
  9. Nepal
  10. Pakistan
  11. Peru
  12. Thailand

How can I thank all the people who added appropriate topics to my questions?

By going forth and sinning no more. As in, adding appropriate topics yourself. To your own questions, and then others’.

Why are some of my questions unanswered?

Anon fails to deliver

Who likes low quality questions on Quora?

Noone, amirite?

https://www.quora.com/How-are-st…

An easily Googleable question from Anon?

I’m going to be commenting this in to any low quality Anon questions I answer, from now on. Feel free to take this and go viral.

Pictures of toy trucks will be fine too.

How are star names related to Greek letters?

I feel marginally bad when I answer an easily Googleable question with reference to the first Wikipedia link that comes up.

I feel less bad when the easily Googleable question comes from Anon.

Bayer designation

Bayer designation is a stellar designation in which a specific star is identified by a Greek letter, followed by the genitive form of its parent constellation’s Latin name. The original list of Bayer designations contained 1,564 stars.

Most of the brighter stars were assigned their first systematic names by the German astronomer Johann Bayer in 1603, in his star atlas Uranometria. Bayer assigned a lower-case Greek letter, such as alpha (α), beta (β), gamma (γ), etc., to each star he catalogued, combined with the Latin name of the star’s parent constellation in genitive (possessive) form. (See 88 modern constellations for the genitive forms.) For example, Aldebaran is designated α Tauri (pronounced Alpha Tauri), which means “Alpha of the constellation Taurus“.

A single constellation may contain fifty or more stars, but the Greek alphabet has only twenty-four letters. When these ran out, Bayer began using Latin letters: upper case A, followed by lower case bthrough z (omitting j and v), for a total of another 24 letters.

Bayer never went beyond z, but later astronomers added more designations using both upper and lower case Latin letters, the upper case letters following the lower case ones in general. Examples include s Carinae (s of the constellation Carina), d Centauri (d of the constellation Centaurus), G Scorpii (G of the constellation Scorpius), and N Velorum (N of the constellation Vela). The last upper-case letter used in this way was Q.

What religion are Greek people?

Religion in Greece

Which leads to the uncomfortable question, who counts as Greek people.

Well, if we leave out migrants from the past couple of generations, and talk about religions of long standing in Greece (using counts from the Wikipedia article linked, which also skip immigrants).

  • The overwhelming majority is Greek Orthodox. 88% of 11 million as of 2011.
  • The presence of Islam in Greece was substantial, and a large proportion of Greek Muslims were ethnic Greeks (particularly Crete). After the 1923 population exchanges, the only substantial Muslim population has been in Thrace, and is ethnically Turkish, Bulgarian (Pomak), or Roma. 100k.
  • Jews have lived in Greece since Hellenistic times, and their numbers were substantially bolstered by the Sephardic exodus. Wiped out in the Holocaust, and those left did Aliyah. 7500.
  • A Western Rite Catholic presence on the Greek islands (hence the Rebetika anthem Fragosyriani “Frankish [Catholic] girl from Syros”, written by Markos Vamvakaris, himself a Frankish boy from Syros). 50k.
  • A minuscule Uniate (Byzantine Rite) Catholic presence: Greek Byzantine Catholic Church. 5k.
  • An Armenian Orthodox presence bolstered by Armenians fleeing from the genocide. 20k.
  • Some evangelism from Protestants since the 19th century. 30k.
  • Some Hellenic Neo-Pagans. The peak body Supreme Council of Ethnic Hellenes has 2k members.
  • Jehovah’s Witnesses: 28k.

What is the correct name of the language spoken officially in Iran in English? Is it Persian or Farsi?

Of course, we don’t have an Academy in English to adjudicate on these matters, but we do have precedent and practice. Persian remains much more common, but there is some usage of Farsi. Wikipedia (Persian language) says:

The Academy of Persian Language and Literature has declared that the name “Persian” is more appropriate, as it has the longer tradition in western languages and better expresses the role of the language as a mark of cultural and national continuity. Some Persian language scholars such as Ehsan Yarshater, editor of Encyclopædia Iranica, and University of Arizona professor Kamran Talattof, have also rejected the usage of “Farsi” in their articles.

What Persian scholars like, I have to say, is not particularly decisive about how English will work, although English favours endonyms much more these days than other languages do. Or rather, a bunch of English-speakers do; I don’t, harrumph.

Both are used, use Persian as the default unless you have reason not to.

Is “don’t” used incorrectly in the English language?

Brian Collins is right, but let me try a different approach.

I do not nationalise the memes of production > I don’t nationalise…

Do not nationalise the memes of production > Don’t nationalise…

When that’s happened, it has now made don’t a word. The clitics that Brian refers to are bits of meaning, that semantically are different words, but phonetically are part of a word. Which applies to n’t.

So. Do you nationalise the memes off production?

You want to say this in a shorter way. But you now have a new word, don’t. And language really, really values consistency.

So you use that new word instead of respecting the underlying pattern. I’m sure it was weird 700 years ago. But the important thing here is, don’t isn’t a search and replace substitute for do not in all contexts. It is a new word, with its own grammar.

How well can you get by visiting Turkey without speaking Turkish?

Well, I guess it was just us then.

Spent three or four days over our honeymoon in Istanbul, pretty much Sultanahmet, with a couple of excursions to Üsküdar. Sultanahmet, certainly, is Grand Tourist Central.

I was astonished how few English speakers we found. Which proved particularly devastating when we got a taxi to Üsküdar, and when we got lost in Üsküdar, trying to find my wife’s cousin’s house.

Granted, I’m comparing Istanbul to Greece, where everyone has to know English if they know what’s good for them. In fact, I found it heartening for Turkey that people don’t have to know English. But I only found command of English in staff in really obviously touristy places. Not among the ordinary Istambullus, and not in normal shops.

Edward Conway dreams of Fire and Ice

A sequel to Pegah and Lyonel’s mutually assured destruction.

Edward Conway, bless him, commented:

https://galleryofawesomery.quora…

This brings a whole new meaning to the phrase “A Song of Ice and Fire”. I look forward to watching the battles play out between Lyonel Perabo’s frozen tourist zombies (powered by the northern lights and the awesomeness that is Norwegian scenery) and Pegah Esmaili’s fiery dragons (back by a rich history stretching back thousands of years and the fastest Google Image search on Quora) :).

To which I responded:

https://galleryofawesomery.quora…

I am not undertaking to serialise these…